Hesselberg Joins Fray As Some Bikies Turn to Bigotry Against Old People

Wisconsin State Journal writer George Hesselberg, aging in his own right, has joined the fray with his article, Soglin feeling heat from bikers  "Winter bicyclists from the Yukon were pedaling their insults in response to Soglin 's relatively brief Wednesday commentary..."

Hesselberg's article, like my original and subsequent posts, evoked a series of vitriolic diatribes against ancient people. Geez, is he getting old. .... and from my own: it's written from an old person.

The responses were interesting. There was a solid mixture of attacks on irresponsible car, trucks and bus drivers combined with hearty defenses of snow and ice biking.

Too many drivers are irresponsible regarding bikers (and other motor vehicles).  Snow and ice biking can be safe and enjoyable with the proper equipment.

None of that nullifies the point that riding a bike in a snowstorm in the dark where the streets already have a bonded ice pack and are filled with ruts a jackhammer could not budge is stupid; even if the observation comes from a white man over the age of sixty.

Comments

[TDP]

Actual links to the commentary around the country can be found here: http://www.thedailypage.com/daily/article.php?article=15792

[right wing icebiker]

Paul,
I'm amazed that you don't yet see what all the fuss is about. You telling people who know within themselves that they are capable of safely riding their bike in horrible winter conditions is the arrogance of your age. I'd be willing to bet that some Dow Chemical recruiter probably would have loved to tell you that you were an idiot because you didn't conform to his view of acceptability and that you inconvenienced him. He would have told you that he was doing if for your own good too. Now tell me, What would've you told him, that is before you got old and soft.

[aomthree]

riding a bike in a snow storm at dark....stupid!
i dont drive a car, i dont go the gas station, i spend money on bike tires, reflective clothing, firewood, bike lights, christmas presents, etc. but i guess ill stop earning a living and contributing to the economy because my only way to and from work is stupid.

instead of thinking of safe ways to get home everynight ill start searching all of craigs list for the best gas guzzeling car

give me a break

[jfitz]

As a person who dodged many riders on my way home the other night, I commend you for telling the truth. While some riders may be capable of traversing the bumpy roads and potholes, many were not, including one who slide in between two cars in front of me and was almost run over. I praise riders who are doing their humanitarian part by limiting the number of cars on the road in an attempt to relieve congestion and decrease green house gas. However, your attempts are for naught if us drivers are all piled up in a big heap because we chose to rear end the car in front of us instead of you.

[Momanonymous]

I can't decide who is dumber, idiots biking in the snow or idiots jogging in the frozen streets because the sidewalks haven't been shoveled yet. I almost hit a woman this morning when dropping my kids off in a crowded school zone. She acturally gave me an angry look as I slammed on the brakes and slid to a stop after she bounded out into the street in front of me.

[greg]

The "Ten Commandments" for drivers, as listed in the document, are:

I. You shall not kill.

II. The road shall be for you a means of communion between people and not of mortal harm.

III. Courtesy, uprightness and prudence will help you deal with unforeseen events.

IV. Be charitable and help your neighbor in need, especially victims of accidents.

V. Cars shall not be for you an expression of power and domination and an occasion of sin.

VI. Charitably convince the young and not so young not to drive when they are not in a fitting condition to do so.

VII. Support the families of accident victims.

VIII. Bring guilty motorists and their victims together, at the appropriate time, so that they can undergo the liberating experience of forgiveness.

IX. On the road, protect the more vulnerable party.

X. Feel responsible toward others.

[Bob]

I don't think the roads the cyclists cry motorists monopolize would exist without motor cars. Get over yourselves, you goofy-looking lycra-encapsulated fools, and get the fuck out of my way on MY ROAD, lest the front end of my Hummer turn you into road pizza.

[Cory]

Can you just accept the fact that driving a car in a snow storm in the dark is just as irresponsible? These are dangerous conditions and the responsibility does not lay in either party's hands. The fact of the matter is whether you are in a car or on a bike it is dangerous. This being said watch out for each other, even more so if you are in a car. It is an issue of respect. Respect the fact that maybe some one's only mode of transportation is a bike and that as a car driver you are endangering their life by driving in those conditions just as much as they are putting their own life on the line by riding a bike.

In an ideal world the weather would always be perfect, or you would always have alternative options to get were you need to go. But this is not the case. People do what they need to do to get to work or the store. I can guarantee most people are not going out in snow storm and riding for the fun of it. The people who are are probably the ones who can handle it or have the right equipment. The majority of the people riding in these conditions are riding out of necessity.

If you are a biker the people sliding around in their cars are the dangerous ones. This is all a fight of perspective. I applaud you for riding your bike frequently to work, but do not attack those people who ride their bike more often because they have no other way to get around.

[any]

Mr Hummer driver: First, I'm sorry about your tiny you-know-what. Second, why don't you get your stupid-looking Hummer-encapsulated self off the roads.

When conditions are so bad how about all the cars stay off the roads and leave them to bikes? Of all the storm-related accidents on the roads in the last week, including those with fatalities, how many were caused by bikers losing control and how many were vehicle drivers losing control? If you want safe streets during and after a storm it would be better to keep the cars off the road than bikes.

[Martin]

Paul, I've ridden 8 Wisconsin winters since 1997 (skipping a few when I lived in DC). Back in '98 when the city got nailed I was the first employee to show up at my job out on 3300 block of University Avenue. I worked part-time for years as a bicycle courier for Scram Couriers - in the winter months - and never had an accident. When wass the last time you rode "a bike in a snowstorm in the dark where the streets already have a bonded ice pack and are filled with ruts aj jackhammer could not budge"? My point here is, Are you really qualified to make such statements or, at the very least, might I be more qualified to tell you that you're mistaken?

[Long Time Madison Resident]

Paul: At times us old and crusty adults who used to ride bikes on gravel, shared the roads with all the cars, trucks, buses know who will WIN when hit??? Now we have helmets, tires made for different riding, bike paths that many of us have supported, Know One Thing - Bikers Need to Use Some Good Old Fashion Common Sense - You don't prove anything to the rest of us when you make a Bad Choice to ride in weather that's just not fit for bikes (Two Wheels)....Live to Ride Another Day -Maybe That's More Important - You're Right Paul! STUPID -STUPID -STUPID

[lbcyclist]

You must be a complete drunk loser. Can't you even spell? 'buse drivers'? 'rising a bike'?

[Jessica]

Bottom line: Too many SUVs in a hurry, not heeding pedestrian or cycler rights. Too many rich bitches in their 60 thousand dollar gas guzzling SUVs.

[Bob Keith]

The question now is who will be the last blog poster standing? Day after day Paul writes about local and worldly issues. The posts are thoughful and often colorful. At times, no one or only a couple people comment. But go and insult bicycles - now there you have a holy jihad declared.

Paul, if you are looking to increase your comment section even more I suggest you go after Wisconsin football fans next. You can top it off by ridiculing the ritual of Wisconsin Friday night fish frys to finsh out the trifecta of insulting holy institutions in Wisconsin. It could be a glorious hat-tick.

Bob Keith
cooldadiomedia.com
dailydadio.cooldadiomedia.com

[kory]

I'd love to ride on the shoulder, but it takes 3 days to plow the road. Oh and the shoulder never gets cleared. I'd be surprised if you didn't start seeing people in wheelchairs in the middle of the road since half of all the sidewalk intersections are still impassable. Maybe the blind will begin using the roads as well. Hope it doesn't inconvenience anyone. At least the blind can't shoot back - oh wait, they can aim for the sound of your blubbering mouth.

[KB]

I LOVE this! It's so easy to get you people wound up. Holy shit you people need to learn to lighten up. DAMN!

[KB]

I LOVE this! It's so easy to get you people wound up. Holy shit you people need to learn to lighten up. DAMN!

[kr]

This is weird that you have covered some of the most profound issues and this is the one that is getting the most comments.

Anyhow, here's mine.

Here's my story about a nuts biker.

We were heading home after a Badger game this season at Randall and it was starting to get dark. Mind you, I make it point to watch for bikers because I myself am one from time to time.

We are driving down Wilson heading to Washington ultimately when I heard someone yell "hey asshole!" I thought it was coming from a porch until a block or two later I heard "hey asshole!"

I look in my rearview and a guy is peddling his ass off. He is dressed all in black so I must have not seen him and cut him off.

This keeps up the length of Wilson up to the Crystal Bar. My wife is freaked out but I say to her, "what's he going to do if he catches up with us? Piss on our tires."

We whip around the corner and sure enough, the guy kept on my tail just about to Washington.

Are they all like that in Madison?

On our way back to Milwaukee we pull off on 83 to get a bite and all of a sudden we hear "hey asshole!"

[Jessica]

"I must have not seen him and cut him off."

Be more careful and pay more attention. You are not the god of the road in a big truck.

[KB]

"This keeps up the length of Wilson up to the Crystal Bar. My wife is freaked out but I say to her, "what's he going to do if he catches up with us? Piss on our tires.""

Ever seen what a set of SPD cleats does to a car door?
Or a frame pump does to a windshield?

While I find this entire thing with Paul to be amusing as shit, don't underestimate what an irritated off cyclist can do to you. My personal fav is dumping a bottle of Cytomax in the drivers lap after getting cut off. Unless you're getting onto John Nolen or some other really long stretch w/o a light, I can, and very likely will, catch you.

[somewhere in the middle]

Okay, analyzing this interesting discussion...I see two issues at hand from two sides:

a) Many drivers (especially big-city) drive fast on autopilot: unaware of something around them unless it has red brakes lights (the car ahead that they're tailgating). They drive pretending they're in some auto race and drive aggressively.

b) Some bikers think they're Lance Armstrong and own the road, getting in the way of drivers and not following rules "of the road" per se.

One thought is that BOTH are breaking rules both in social etiquette and laws (believe it or not, it IS illegal to go over the speed limit, just never enforced until after 10mph ;)).

I don't have a stance since I try to do my best being aware and following laws and norms on my bike and in my car. Just my thoughts.

[greg]

thanks for encouraging all the road ragers to take it up a notch, Paul. We need more gun violence in this county. it's just too peaceful here.

But Paul was really thinking too small; we should increase his target audience.
We should include any dog walkers who dare to take their dogs out for walks when the road is narrower due to snow. they really get in my way. how dare they? they should wait till the roads are completely cleared.

how about an open season on motorists who talk on their cell phone while piloting their isolation box?
speeders?
drivers that fail to use their turn signal?
why not?

there isn't much mental illness in this country, and guns are hard to find. so we should be just fine.

Thanks Paul.
I hope you get a ton of support and business from this little dalliance.

Merry Trucking Christmas

[bikesalot]

"This is the basis of car culture, the idea that the world and all of the world's people are merely in its way."-- Travis Hugh Culley.

[DB]

"Jessica's" comment about the cyclist dressed all in black got me thinking. Why aren't Madison cyclists more up in arms about the irresponsible riders who give them a bad reputation? Yes, there are those of you who wear helmets and $80 reflective jackets and use your head/tail lamps; you understand the rules of the road and ride correctly and safely. You aren't the problem.

The problems is the other folks out there who *aren't* riding safely. Students weaving through a line of cars on Randall and crossing against the light. Macho men in Lance Armstrong jerseys on racing bikes, blowing through the lights on West Wash like it's their God-given right. High schoolers who take dumb chances on slick roads. And people dressed in dark clothes without lights riding at night, which is basically a Romulan cloaking device as far as motorists are concerned (no matter how fast or slow they are driving).

The second group is a problem for car drivers and responsible cyclists alike. Paul's hyperbole may have been a bit much-I for one think you all need a sense of humor-but it's clear that he was targeting them. He might *only* be a recreational rider, but he's committed to the rights of everyone on two wheels. Maybe instead of characterizing his words as the ramblings of a bitter old man, you might see them as the frustration of a committed cyclist who's tired of seeing folks put themselves in unsafe situations, for lack of common sense.

[Jessica]

"Jessica's" comment about the cyclist dressed all in black got me thinking. Why aren't Madison cyclists more up in arms about the irresponsible riders who give them a bad reputation?"

Don't think I made a a specific comment about cyclists dressed in black, (the names of the bloggers are at the bottom, not the top), however, I do agree with the the idea that there are SOME irresponsible cyclists, but that does not relieve the responsibility of the car drivers and quite agree with the "car culture" quotation posted by bikesalot and the "romulan cloaking device" describing car drivers by DB. Essentially I am more of a walker than a cyclist, although I did just buy a new bike. What is mind boggling is that it seems to be a sort of "WIsconsin mentality", the desire to hit pedestrians and cyclists alike. I moved to Wisconsin to a small central city in 2002 from the Pacific Northwest and was startled when crossing the street in a cross walk to see cars coming at me at full speed with no intent to slow down! Unbelievable. In Idaho, pedestrian laws were strictly enforced. Pedestrians and cyclists seem to be huge irritants to Wisconsonites. But it was not until I moved to Madison that I was crossing University near the Shell station in the cross walk that a big truck made an illegal left turn, hit me, bounced me off his hood ( I was unconscious) and broke my pelvis. I'm lucky to be alive but I noticed that the photographer at the scene took pictures of the TRUCK and its' broken grill, many pictures, and two of me lying on the tarmac...hmmmmmm. What's more important? Truck or human?

[Jessica]

Guess I'll have to take my "Wisconsin mentality" comment back. It seems to be statewide, so it's really "American mentality". Minutes after posting my last post, my brother, who is an avid cyclist, was mowed down in California, while IN THE BIKE LANE and the motorist left the scene. My brother: broken clavicle and scapula. Motorist: who knows? Happy? It can't be more of coincidence that I was blogging as my brother was getting hit, but a very sad coincidence at that.

[X]

Jessica - maybe your family is just accident prone?

[Jessica]

Jessica - maybe your family is just accident prone?

Posted by: X | December 08, 2007 at 12:55 PM
***************************************************************

No, they are not. Two out of the four kids are (my brother and I) are avid walkers and cyclists. Cars drivers are out of control. Your comment is decidely unthoughtful. Bet you own a giant SUV

[X]

Ohhh....the big SUV jab! Right to the heart with a feeble dig!

Actually, I have a small, high mpg car (and and old one at that - well over 200k miles) and I ride my bike between 3,000 and 4,000 miles a year in and around Madison and Dane County and Southern WI. And in the 10 or so years I've been riding, I've never once been hit, or even come close. It's been my observation that time and time again, it's the cyclist acting like an idiot which causes the near, and actual, accidents.

[brandan]

i think it's probably safer overall to ride bikes on streets 'hard packed' with snow and ice, but i also think streets are designed for motor vehicles, and all of the things we as a society 'know' about using streets is based in some sense on how we should act around the inherent 'dangers' of streets. there are so many aspects of this situation that bear close scrutiny, and it's certainly a great topic of debate.

why is it, though, that when a good topic for debate is brought up that people completely neglect argument? it's like one long episode of dragon ball z, with a bunch of people saying stupid things until everybody's got blonde hair and somebody has to die.

it's okay to say people should be, need to be, or will be shot. it's okay for the same reason thinking it is okay. we don't live in oceana (do we? i've got no proof), and i think it goes without saying (which may be part of the problem, honestly) that we have the right to express ourselves freely, without fear of persecution for our beliefs, ideas or whatever else we may feel oh so strongly enough about to want to turn the entire cyclist world against us.

i think then that it also goes without saying that the cyclist who decide to respond how they wish to respond is perfectly in line with the original topic, but we're still missing that valuable argument that could possibly stem from it. who cares, though? is it okay sometimes to simply vent frustrations through free expression, and are we not intelligent human beings capable of gauging the direction of a movement simply by the basest of responses to us?

the biggest problem with this entire situation isn't the original comment or the supposed 'insults' that followed (don't you have to be insulted for a comment to be an insult? if you're insulted by a moron bike rider wishing you dead because you called him an idiot for riding his bike in the snow, well, then i wish you would just die), it's that this story got nation-wide advertisement as a controversial issue and it really wasn't.

web logs are, surprisingly, sometimes full of opinion, exaggeration, humor, drama, and pretty much any other thing a person can possibly think into existence. there is fan fiction about family matters orgies! these are great resources for conversation and the dissemination of data, especially in an age dominated by secretive governments and overt attacks on civil liberties. if we are going to support the ability for a person to speak without fear of physical limitation of such ability to speak freely we must first take on the responsibility of resisting our urges to persecute those who might speak out against us.

i really don't know why i'm saying all of this here, as i've only got a general idea of what even occurred. thanks for the incentive to think, though!

[Justin]

Paul,

You're right. If it gets snowy while I'm at work (which I bike to), I should just suck it up in and sleep in my office. Screw the family. Slumber party at work.

Get a grip.

Have a little consideration for someone other than yourself. Just because you're too lazy to bike, doesn't mean no one should be allowed to. Outside the many people who CHOOSE a bike for transportation, for others it is often the only viable economic option for getting around.

[Jessica]

"It's been my observation that time and time again, it's the cyclist acting like an idiot which causes the near, and actual, accidents."

First, my brother wasn't "acting like an idiot". He is an experienced cyclist and was IN THE BIKE LANE when he was hit by a motorist who left the scene. Nor was I "acting like an idiot" when I walked in the crosswalk.

That said, I too have seen both cyclists and pedestrians acting irresponsibly, cyclists riding slowly in a major street with a bus right on his/her tail, pedestrians darting out into the street, particularly on campus, etc. Still, while these particular folks may be irresponsible, the onus lies with the motorist to have full awareness of his/her surroundings. WATCH for pededestrians, animals, cyclists.

[stderr]

Seriously, I had no idea that there was such a thing as "snow biking". And I'm from Chicago which spawns at least 80% of ridiculous hobbies / activities. You'd think people would have a little more sense.

Personally, I wouldn't "shoot" people snowing in a snowstorm. Hitting em with your car would be much easier (and less suspicious).

[greg]

straight from the WI DOT:

Traveling by bike or foot
Bicycling and walking play an important role in moving people in Wisconsin, many of whom rely on or choose these forms of travel for their main means of transportation. According to a WisDOT statewide survey, nearly 8% of all trips were being completed by bicycling and walking. This does not include those trips where walking augmented another mode of transportation like bus or car travel, such as walking from a parked car to a place of work.

Traveling by bicycle
Traveling by foot
Although these forms of travel generally account for shorter urban or community-based trips, their contribution to a quality and diverse transportation system has received a considerable amount of attention lately. WisDOT has approved a state bicycle plan and a state pedestrian plan. All 14 metropolitan areas in Wisconsin have their own bicycle and pedestrian plans.

Bicycle safety and pedestrian safety have been high priorities for WisDOT since the 1970s. Now, WisDOT is expanding its focus and is committed to considering the needs of bicyclists and pedestrians as roadway improvements are made.

the link
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/travel/bike-foot/

[Jessica]

I'm delighted to see greg's post about the WisDOT commitment to pedestrians and cyclists. However, much more must be done to enforce laws protecting pedestrians and cyclists from self centered car drivers.
Quote from WisDOT cite:
**************************************************************

Pedestrians are still in a world dominated by motorists, however, and collisions with motor vehicles do occur. Some 60 pedestrians are killed each year in Wisconsin, and more than 1,600 suffer injuries. Children ages 5-9 and adults over 75 years old are particularly vulnerable to these collisions. Injury prevention and travel safety begins with a mutual respect between both motorists and pedestrians.
*********************************************************************

I really don't see any respect for pedestrians for motorists, but perhaps I am jaded. The big SUV truck driver who hit me while I was in a cross walk got off with a little traffic ticket. Big whoop! The police had the audacity to ask if I had been drinking. I was WALKING home from a grocery store for fucksake. Ask the TRUCK DRIVER if he had been drinking.
HE got a slap on the wrist. I got a broken pelvis. C'est la vie, I suppose, as long as this is such a car centered culture.

[kr]

I too drive a high mileage small car, not an SUV Jessica. I too pay careful attention of who is biking on the road so no need to be touchy.

Drivers have a heavy responsibility to see who they are sharing the road with and appreciate that bikers are saving us all some gas. But I don't typically drive with infrared glasses. It is as much the job of bikers to be seen as it is for drivers to look for them.

[Jessica]

"I too drive a high mileage small car, not an SUV Jessica. I too pay careful attention of who is biking on the road so no need to be touchy."

I guess I am touchy. That's because I was "touched" by a speeding truck who made an illegal left turn into a crosswalk, where I was lawfully walking.
Also I think when we all take driving lessons in our teens we learn to be aware of everything around us as we drive, not just other cars. We learn to be extra careful around schools, lest a school child dart into the road.

Anyway, although I agree that some bicyclists and some pedestrians should be more careful, it still troubles me that innocent bicyclists and pedestrians get blamed for their own injuries when car drivers unlawfully hit them. Today my brother was riding his bike in California in a bike line. A truck hit him, and then drove away. My brother suffered from two fractured clavicles, a fractured scapula, fractured ribs, fractured pelvis, and a fractured spine. He is 39 years old and very fit. He was obeying the law by riding in the bike lane. The truck driver who hit him committed a "hit and run".I don't know all the laws, but hit and run or not I think that auto drivers should be more severely punished, indeed very severely punished for lack of attention. Cars are big and deadly. Pedestrians and cyclists are relatively light. Car vs human...bad.

[DB]

"the 'romulan' cloaking device" describing car drivers by DB"

I wasn't talking about drivers, I was talking about cyclists. Anyone riding at night dressed in dark, non-reflective clothing without lights or a helmet is an irresponsible idiot. Add rain or snow to the mix, and you have a recipe for disaster. What about this is defensible? If someone is practically invisible on their bike and they dart into traffic, how is it the cars' fault they get hit? Is suggesting that safe biking includes a healthy dose of common sense even acceptable, or does conceding that fact enable the culture of oppression by the evil car-driving masses?

[Jessica]

the 'romulan' cloaking device" describing car drivers by DB"

"I wasn't talking about drivers, I was talking about cyclists. Anyone riding at night dressed in dark, non-reflective clothing without lights or a helmet is an irresponsible idiot. Add rain or snow to the mix, and you have a recipe for disaster. What about this is defensible? If someone is practically invisible on their bike and they dart into traffic, how is it the cars' fault they get hit? Is suggesting that safe biking includes a healthy dose of common sense even acceptable, or does conceding that fact enable the culture of oppression by the evil car-driving masses?"

I see your point. Yes, cyclists should wear reflective clothing.

[Jessica]

But, don't you all agree that many of these problems could be alleviated by the creation of better, safer bike lanes, away from car traffic? Such a simple solution. And pedestrian bridges. I want pedestrian bridges over University Ave and other busy streets.
The area of University near campus is just awful for bike riders because the lanes are in the middle of busy traffic. Crazy! We have nice bike trails, but we need more safe bike lanes for those of us who commute to work or school.

[DB]

Actually, Jessica, many cycling advocacy organizations believe an over-reliance on segregated bike facilities is bad, because it creates the expectation that bikes aren't worthy of using the road. They emphasize greater education for drivers, as well as cyclists asserting their right to use the road (within the traffic laws, of course).

[Jessica]

"Actually, Jessica, many cycling advocacy organizations believe an over-reliance on segregated bike facilities is bad, because it creates the expectation that bikes aren't worthy of using the road. They emphasize greater education for drivers, as well as cyclists asserting their right to use the road (within the traffic laws, of course)."

Thanks. I actually did not know that. But I think by reading some of the posts, that the "greater education for drivers" will be difficult and wil be met with great resistance. The attitude by many car drivers is very negative towards cyclists, and it seems to me, from my own experience in an accident, that the police, lawyers, and insurance companies side with the all powerful automobile.
It's a shame.
It's a car culture.
I wonder what we can learn from bicycle friendly countries like the Netherlands.

[Mauricio Babilonia]

X wrote:

"It's been my observation that time and time again, it's the cyclist acting like an idiot which causes the near, and actual, accidents."

Yeah, tell that to Jessica Bullen. Wait, she's dead. How 'bout you tell her family that? Every serious cyclist knows that the next time they throw a leg over the bike, it could be their last, regardless of the weather.

Look, I understand that there are also bike riders out there who ride like jackasses and who take unnecessary chances with everyone's safety--thiers, yours and mine. What hasn't made it across the divide here is that there are irresponsible actors in both groups, cyclists and motor vehicle operators, regardless of the weather. What bothers me about Paul's original comment is that does not recognize is that there are responsible cyclists who ride in inclement weather.

stderr Wrote:

"Seriously, I had no idea that there was such a thing as "snow biking". And I'm from Chicago which spawns at least 80% of ridiculous hobbies / activities. You'd think people would have a little more sense."

Dude, check out what your homies are up to: http://bikewinter.org/ Arguably bigger there than it is here.

DB wrote:

"Anyone riding at night dressed in dark, non-reflective clothing without lights or a helmet is an irresponsible idiot."

Not to mention that it's illegal to ride a bicycle in Wisconsin without a front light and rear reflector at a minimum. I really wish the resources and/or the will were there to enforce that statute. I personally wouldn't ride in the dark in any weather without all the stuff you mention.

[kr]

I too drive a high mileage small car, not an SUV Jessica. I too pay careful attention of who is biking on the road so no need to be touchy.

Drivers have a heavy responsibility to see who they are sharing the road with and appreciate that bikers are saving us all some gas. But I don't typically drive with infrared glasses. It is as much the job of bikers to be seen as it is for drivers to look for them.

[Jessica]

kr why did ypu repeat the same post?

[greg]

if Barry Alvaraez can miraculously appear before a legislative committee and get a huge sales tax break for wealthy season ticket holders, certainly "our" legislature can muscle up a sales tax break for bike lights

[Don]

It is amazing to me how this city bends over backwards putting bike lanes and paths all over the city for such a tiny, insignificant percentage of the population. On days before the snow came I am forced to weave my way down the roads on the east side in order to follow the crazy new bike lane lines that have made the traffic lanes so narrow the cars and trucks barely fit anymore, all this just so one or two people, if I see any at all, can bike to work. Maybe the old hippies could just get a job that pays enough so they could buy a car? Maybe the guy collecting cans from the trash cans could wait until after rush hour to start his route? Only a fool with a death wish would ride a bike on a busy street in a snow storm. I ask you; why do people still insist on riding their bike down Willy street and Atwood Ave blocking traffic when there is a bike path right there? Answer: the bike riders that do so are ass holes and do it for no other reason than to be a nuisance to the 99.99 percent of us who take our cars to work. Try and take the kids to school, and then go to work on your bike. When I see someone taking their bike to work I think how nice it must be to be single and not have any responsibilities to worry about other than taking care of themself.

[greg]

i am an ass hole, Don. Just ask my friends.

i am not insignificant however. according to the WI DOT 8% of trips are made by bike/foot, not 0.01%. and that doesn't include people taking the bus, either. and many people take the bus/bike/feet to work by choice, not by economic necessity. although as a kid I did pick up pop bottles to take to the corner store to redeem for 5 cents so I could buy some gum.

that percent would go up dramatically if many people, including yourself, thought biking was a safe way to get to where they wanted to go. most people that are afraid are afraid of what? you, Don.

biking is fun, it is cheap, it's good for you and a great way to get exercise. when you bike you see and hear the birds, and are much more in touch with your world in general.

and since you are so concerned that bikers only think about themselves; and you have to think of others in your day: why don't you show just a tiny little bit of compassion towards people other than your kids and think of all the bikers with kids that are getting to work in a way that is different than you?
show a litte imagination. show a little heart.